[00:00:00] Allan Piper: We do live in a, an apartment where strange things happen, but we also live in an apartment that we can afford in Manhattan. Right. East Village.

[00:00:09] Sally Struthers: And it’s big.

[00:00:10] Jennifer Leigh Houston: It got Oh, really? Got a little uncomfortable. Yeah. Look, you know, I don’t, you wanna turn the lights on and off? Fine. You wanna remove some items, you wanna turn the water on and off, you wanna slam doors?

I don’t really mind all of that, but when you start yelling at me at three o’clock in the morning, yeah. I might have a problem. You never told me this before. Well, I was because I want you to spend the night. Daniel not

coming me, he won’t. So I was like never. I’m not place anymore.

[00:00:36] Bob Wheeler: Picture this a spooky apartment in a fantastic location, all at a freakishly low price.

Would you dare to live there? It’s not every day that you meet people who have channeled their real life experiences in a haunted apartment into the creative project of a lifetime. Enter Sally Struthers, an award-winning actress alongside co-star Jennifer Leigh Houston, and director Alan Piper, who invite us into their world of spooky [00:01:00] roommates, the making of their new independent horror film, evil sublet, and their unique perspective into the world of indie filmmaking on a budget.

I’m Bob Wheeler. And this is a special edition of money you should ask where we explore why we do what we do when it comes to money.

[00:01:38] eVil Sublet Teaser Clip: I have a good feeling about this place. What is the listing? Sage E. That’s the East Village. It’s just an abbreviation like Soho, Dumbo, Tribeca, the Evil. It’s a fully furnished three bedroom. Get out, get out.

Hello. I think we just found our dream apartment.[00:02:00]

Hey guys. What just happened?

[00:02:11] Bob Wheeler: Well, I’m super excited today because we have a special episode of Money You Should Ask. I’m sitting here with Sally Struthers, Alan Piper and Jennifer Leigh Houston, who are all part of. Evil sublet. And the funny thing is this movie is actually based on Jennifer and Alan’s real life experiences and we’ll get into that a little bit cuz I’m not sure I would stay in a haunted place, although the comedy store’s haunted.

So seems appropriate. Welcome to show. So excited to have everybody here.

[00:02:38] Sally Struthers: Thank you. Thank you much. So you’re married, by the way. They are married. Yes we are. Yeah, you Stuart are married. Uh, Bob? Yeah, I’m not married. You’re not married, do we?

[00:02:48] Bob Wheeler: Do we need to, uh, we can turn this into a dating app.

[00:02:52] Sally Struthers: Let’s just try it out as we go along

[00:02:53] Bob Wheeler: here.

All right, well, we’ll find somebody. Now, do you want somebody scary

[00:02:56] Sally Struthers: or, oh, no, not me, not. These two are fine with scary. [00:03:00] I You’re not. No, I. Was in their film, but I don’t wanna see it. You

[00:03:03] Bob Wheeler: prefer to be the frighten or not the frightened? Yes,

[00:03:06] Sally Struthers: and I don’t, I would feel so guilty if I frightened someone. I wouldn’t get over it for years, so I tried to not even frighten people.

[00:03:12] Bob Wheeler: Well, that’s so nice. But, so let me ask you this, Sally. So. It’s a scary film. You’re, this is your debut into horror. You’ve done everything, you’ve done television stage and movies, and this is your first horror film. And what drew you to the film?

[00:03:30] Sally Struthers: Uh, well, it’s been in the back of my mind that that’s one thing in show business that I didn’t do, but it was because they became my dear friends five years ago.

It feels like 50 years. I so well. But, uh, and they asked me, But it was way back before Covid that they asked me. And then Covid hit and they had to put their movie on hold, right? Yeah. So I, I’m just happy I eventually got to do it because now really the only thing I haven’t done [00:04:00] is a porno

[00:04:00] Jennifer Leigh Houston: film.

[00:04:02] Allan Piper: Well, we’ll, we’ll, we’ll get right on that.

That’s the, uh, that’s the next project.

[00:04:05] Bob Wheeler: Great. The year is young. The year is young, so,

[00:04:08] Sally Struthers: uh, I’m not though, I think we did quarantine that.

[00:04:12] Jennifer Leigh Houston: Oh, honey, there’s a market, there’s audience for everything. There’s an audience. You’d be surprised. Oh yeah. There is an

[00:04:18] Bob Wheeler: audience. My God did that. Yes, sir. Really handsomely.

Yeah, that’s right. Uh, what’s that? Fans.

[00:04:26] Jennifer Leigh Houston: Fans only. Only fans. Only fans. Oh my God. You’d make a mint. I remember you’d make a mint out. We’ll talk about it later. We’ll talk. Bring that ring light home. So,

[00:04:35] Allan Piper: cause we were talking earlier about bad money choices. Yeah,

[00:04:39] Bob Wheeler: no. Making an independent film and using your life savings, that feels like a good choice.

So Alan, Jen, how did you just say, let’s take every dollar we have and put it into a film, because we all know every film is profitable from day one.

[00:04:55] Allan Piper: I, I would, I would say that the, uh, some of the best money advice that I could give to anyone is [00:05:00] do not make an independent film. Yeah. Uh, but we had, uh, we had an unusual, um, fundraising strategy with our film.

Anyone who gave, uh, over $20 had the option of becoming a ghost. In the film, right? We would take their faces and we would hide them in the shadows and in the corners of the apartment. And

[00:05:20] Sally Struthers: how many ghosts do you have hiding in this film?

[00:05:22] Jennifer Leigh Houston: Over 200. Over

[00:05:23] Bob Wheeler: 200?

[00:05:23] Allan Piper: Yeah. And uh, and what’s great is, It, this was a way that people who contributed the movie could literally become part of it.

Yeah. But it also makes it creepier and scarier. We’ve had, uh, so we’ve, we’ve now premiered the movie at the Coney Island Film Festival. Cool. And I was, I was sitting next to someone at the movie and we’re watching a scene. And in the background, uh, in the window as it looks like it’s a reflection, it’s a face staring there that’s hidden and.

Just, it’s there for the whole scene and then partway through the scene, that person goes, blah, look over there. And so it’s, so, it’s good. So it serves the [00:06:00] purpose of both funding the movie and making the movie creepy. Well, I

[00:06:03] Sally Struthers: just did the math. If you had, let’s just say forget about the word, over 200, just 200 people, and they minimum donated $20 each.

That’s an extra 4,000 to make your film, right? Yeah.

[00:06:14] Allan Piper: And it ended up, uh, since a lot of people gave more than the $20, it, it ended up being a, a. Uh, a sizeable it, it ended up making it possible for us to do things with the movie that we didn’t think we would be able to otherwise.

[00:06:25] Jennifer Leigh Houston: Some people weren’t satisfied with simply having their face in the movie.

They wanted to know how much they would have to pay if they could have their whole body in. We’re like, okay, Sparky, some, uh, somebody asked us, how much would it cost for you to. Superimposed there. Give, give me a line and let me be in the movie. And we were like, we can do, there’s the screenwriter go to town.

And so we did, do you need

[00:06:51] Bob Wheeler: these laundered there you for 10,000 cars? He said, worked

[00:06:56] Jennifer Leigh Houston: yeah’s exciting. People wanted to be a part of it though, you know? I mean [00:07:00] that’s, yeah. We had, we had, we had some other, uh, things, interesting things too. Some people wanted props, so we had a special, you know, they wanted like a.

A bloody sword or you know, I’m like, absolutely there’s

[00:07:12] Bob Wheeler: go for it. Go for it. Hey, when you’re, you gotta get creative when you’re doing independent filmmaking. Yes, absolutely. And 4,000 doesn’t sound like a lot. But when you’re making a film, 4,000 could be like 4 million.

[00:07:22] Sally Struthers: And it was actually more than 4,000.

Yes. Oh God yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. You know, the other one has said it yet, but we’re early in this interview. The, the, the, the first film festival was just a few weeks ago. Yeah. With the Coney Island, because the, the part of the film takes place at Coney Island. Oh, that’s so cool. But, They won best film at the film festival.

Oh, that’s awesome. Yes,

[00:07:39] Allan Piper: they did. And, and, and then next week we are off to Slovenia to, uh, show at the Grossman Fantastic film Wine

[00:07:46] Bob Wheeler: Festival. I, Slovenia, that is like one of my, I can’t even spell it. Yes.

[00:07:51] Jennifer Leigh Houston: But it’s to pull out my globe. And it’s

[00:07:54] Sally Struthers: like an often in Iran, doesn’t it? Slovenia Film

[00:07:56] Allan Piper: Festival. It’s uh, it’s one of, uh, it’s one of the most esteemed, uh, [00:08:00] horror and fantasy festivals in Europe.

And we are honored to be, uh,

[00:08:04] Bob Wheeler: a part of it. That’s super exci. I was gonna guess that that was my next. You know, comment was, I was pretty sure it was the premier.

[00:08:13] Jennifer Leigh Houston: Premier. No, it actually is kind’s pretty, that’s, um, last year the guest of honor was Robert England. You might remember with, you know, this year.

Was he Freddie Krueger? Yes. He was Freddie Krueger. Yeah. How I know that. And this year,

[00:08:26] Allan Piper: this year, it’s John Mc Tiernan. Yeah. Is, uh, who’s probably best known to most people as the director of diehard, uh, but best known to horror people as the director of Predator.

[00:08:35] Sally Struthers: Oh, okay. Yeah.

[00:08:36] Bob Wheeler: Oh yeah. I, so I can say I saw that at the movie theater Yeah.

A hundred years ago. Yeah. Well, I, I

[00:08:43] Allan Piper: think we’ll be seeing it in a castle in Slotmania. Yeah. As they, uh, as they screen it to, uh, to honor him. That’s so cool.

[00:08:50] Bob Wheeler: Well, now, so. Rumor has it. This is based on True Life apartment living in New York. You actually have books flying across the room. I [00:09:00] don’t know. Now, I saw a little clip of the movie and I can tell you if anybody came at me with a, I don’t know why masks are scary, but when you have a smiley mask and an axe, it’s just terrifying.

And you know, I don’t know if he was a clown or not, but he was enough that I was like, I would give up the apartment.

[00:09:16] Allan Piper: Well, we have had, uh, yeah, the events depicted in the movie are, uh, in some cases slightly, it’s exaggerated in some cases, not exaggerated at all. Uh, uh, interpretations of things that have actually happened in the apartment.

And, uh, we do. Uh, we do live in a, an apartment where strange things happen, but we also live in an apartment that we can afford in Manhattan. Right. East Village.

[00:09:42] Bob Wheeler: And it’s big. Yeah.

[00:09:43] Jennifer Leigh Houston: It’s a dig. Yeah. We have an entire floor. It’s like a sitcom sized apartment. It’s like the friend’s apartment. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you, you don’t find out until you go to New York.

Like that apartment doesn’t Who young kids living that? No. Living in a studio with four other people.

[00:09:58] Bob Wheeler: They’re not, but, well, here’s what I loved in the [00:10:00] clip, and I’m not really giving anything away, but when you, you know, they’re talking about it and there’s been murders and there’s this and that, and there’s a garden, and Jen’s like, there’s a garden, right?

And I’d be focused on the blood, but you know, there’s a garden. That’s awesome. Um, but did you ever think, now that you’ve saved all this money, would it be worth paying to have somebody exercise or do you just, you get along?

[00:10:21] Jennifer Leigh Houston: Well, that’s interesting.

[00:10:24] Allan Piper: Well, I mean, yeah, Jen can talk more to that than I can.

Uh, so things, and, and I Jen sort of in the relationship, I’m, I’m the, uh, I’m the Scully. Jen is the molder. I, I tend to try to look for a non supernatural explanation to things. I don’t say, I don’t say the apartment is haunted, but I say, Very clearly and definitively things happen in the apartment that I cannot understand or explain.

Okay. And, uh, as we were making the movie, these occurrences really ramped up. Yeah. Cool. Uh, quite substantially. And, [00:11:00] and the aftermath of making the movie. It really did seem, if one were going to interpret it as a haunting, it really did seem as though whoever was doing the haunting was all out harassing Jen.

Yeah, and, and so at that point, what had been a more tolerable thing? Did. Did require a higher level of ghost busting than we had attempted, so

[00:11:23] Sally Struthers: you couldn’t just burn some

[00:11:25] Jennifer Leigh Houston: sage. I did all of that. I, I reached out to the New York Paranormal Society and got some advice. I reached out to some other shamans and got some advice.

I thought about calling the church, but then I thought, oh hell no. They have their own problems, their own problems. Um, Yeah, I had done all of that, you know, I had burnt everything. I had burnt bay leaves, I had burned sage, I had burned, you know, cinnamon. Um, I had burnt numerous dinners and he has burnt numerous dinners and, you know, nothing was working.

[00:11:55] Bob Wheeler: Accidental anyway, right?

[00:11:56] Jennifer Leigh Houston: Yeah. Okay. You try scrubbing and scrubbing and still those stains [00:12:00] won’t what is, or I’m even old Melissa, I can’t get these stains, so, and I thought, well there’s either I’m crazy and I’m not. So if I’m not crazy and if you are not crazy and you’re the pragmatic one. I

[00:12:13] Allan Piper: have. I have.

So you have witnessed more than I have, but I have witnessed my

[00:12:16] Jennifer Leigh Houston: share. Yeah.

[00:12:17] Sally Struthers: Doors opening and closing and yeah, once there, a lot

[00:12:20] Jennifer Leigh Houston: of water turning itself on and off, which is really, we’re in the middle of a drought. Come on. It’s really, but you know, I really, it’s not 1851 anymore. Water doesn’t just hot, you know what I mean?

No, they, they’re, they keep up. Now,

[00:12:34] Bob Wheeler: have you named, have you named this entity? Oh

[00:12:36] Jennifer Leigh Houston: God, no. And it’s more than one. Oh, okay. Oh yeah. So this apartment was built in 1850. It was a house, it was a single family home. It was built in 1851. I don’t know at what point it got turned from a single family home and lobbed up into really oddly shaped apartment.

How

[00:12:53] Sally Struthers: many stores is your built? Four. Just floor. Just so a family and lived in there and inhabited all

[00:12:59] Jennifer Leigh Houston: more [00:13:00] floor. Exactly. Okay. Yeah, so I imagine over the years, you know, it’s a working class neighborhood. Mm-hmm. I’m, I imagine they lived really, really rough. So, You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. With not a lot of medical care.

Yeah. With not a lot of, uh, sanitation. When you think, well, when did indoor plumbing even become, I, I imagine, you know, we have it pretty easy if you get the cold or the flu, you go to the doctor, you get some med, whatever. They had none of that. Right. So I imagine for people going through cholera and typhoid and the Spanish flu mm-hmm.

I can imagine that exit leaving. Was not great. Yeah. Not easy. Yeah. Uh, you know, I mean, that’s what I think of. Yeah. And my, my heart just goes out to, because honestly, the ghost that I’m experiencing, one in particular, I. Is not, she’s not well. Like there’s a, there’s a definite anguish. Mm-hmm. You know, this is, she’s not just like tipping a book off the shelf and, [00:14:00] you know, that’s mischievous.

The other ones are mischievous. Yeah. Like

[00:14:04] Sally Struthers: Poltergeist ish. Ish.

[00:14:06] Jennifer Leigh Houston: Yeah. Ish. But she, she hasn’t

[00:14:08] Bob Wheeler: done, but they haven’t done any harm and they did sort of amp it up for the films.

[00:14:12] Sally Struthers: Wait a minute, we just got a head tilt from Jennifer Leigh Houston.

[00:14:16] Jennifer Leigh Houston: I mean harm. Psychic harm. Mm-hmm. It got a little nut it got Oh, really?

Got a little uncomfortable. Yeah. You know, I don’t You wanna turn the lights on and off? Fine. You wanna remove some items, you wanna turn the water on and off, you wanna slam doors. I don’t really mind all of that, but when you start yelling at me at three o’clock in the morning, yeah, I might have a problem.

If you start touching me, I am gonna have a problem. I have a big problem with that. Dear God. Yeah. Never told me this before. Well, I held her hands because I want you to spend the night. Dan, you’re not

[00:14:47] Sally Struthers: coming to, you won’t. So I was like, never. I’m not gonna your place anymore. No.

[00:14:52] Jennifer Leigh Houston: I, I busted them. I, we haven’t gone to that part.

I called in a shaman. We, we exorcized the place. There’s no more touching. There’s [00:15:00] no more

[00:15:00] Sally Struthers: touching. Guess that we’ll be making that word. All guest

[00:15:03] Jennifer Leigh Houston: room. Our apartment is so big, we, this is unheard of big. Yeah. Yeah. So, and speaking of money, part of the reason why we were able, On a shoestring budget to make this film was because the majority of the film is our apartment, right?

We used our apartment, so, you know, not a lot of location fees and you know, unless you’re, you know, I’m like, come on, I’m gonna charge you $20,000 if you’re gonna mess my kitchen up like that spark. And

[00:15:29] Sally Struthers: they saved money by the fact that. Alan wrote it. Yep. Alan directed it. Yep. Alan edited it. Yep. Jennifer starred in it.

Yeah. I mean, that saved a lot of money. Yeah.

[00:15:41] Allan Piper: Yeah. For, for a lot of scenes I was the whole crew, which also was good as we were, uh, emerging from the Covid shutdown because we wanted to keep the number of people on set. Yeah. To an absolute minimum. Yeah. Now, fortunately, uh, Sally’s scenes, uh, you didn’t have to spend a lot of time in the haunted [00:16:00] department.

Most of your scenes were in a another location that, as far as we know, is not haunted. Okay. It was definitely not haunted, but, uh, the, our. We were gonna shoot everything in March and April of 2020. Because, because that was just gonna be Oh, yeah, yeah. Perfect time. So that didn’t happen. Uh, we had, uh, we had everything ready to go.

We stopped everything. Our, our first day back after, uh, Uh, SAG cleared us to begin shooting and gave us wonderful, uh, covid safety protocols. Our first day back, uh, was, was filming with you and I have to say that, uh, and uh, everyone was nervous just to be in public with other people. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, having, they were also nervous because we were filming with an absolute screen legend and the, the warmth and, uh, just the, the, the openness of spirit [00:17:00] that Sally brought to the set Really.

The entire, the entire rest of the shoot had the entire rest of the movie had a glow, a positive glow cast over it. By the way, the experience of what was our, our new day one of filming, uh, with Sally, it had to be,

[00:17:19] Sally Struthers: I’m thinking as you know, woman to woman, you shoot some things. And then it’s how much afterwards do you shoot anything else?

Your hair like, oh my, do you let your hair grow? Do you change his color? Oh, I can’t do it. Did you take photos? How do you remember what your hair looked like months

[00:17:35] Jennifer Leigh Houston: ago? I, it was a nightmare. Yeah, you don’t even, you, and first of all, I made him go back and re-shoot stuff because I had. Packed on so many Covid pounds, but like, dude, we cannot have this little slip of a thing walking down the street, and then she rounds the corner.

She’s backed on

[00:17:54] Sally Struthers: 25 pounds. She stopped for a couple of those hot dogs. They sell on the corner in New York. Oh my

[00:17:59] Jennifer Leigh Houston: [00:18:00] God. And so we, we had to go back and re-shoot some things and my hair was a nightmare. At one point I misunderstood and I don’t know what, I dyed my hair blue and he was, well, yeah, yeah. I don’t know what I was thinking.

He’s, he goes, why didn’t you do? I say, well, it’s still comes out in 28 washes. And he goes, well, we shoot next month. And I go, well, yeah. He goes next month, next week.

[00:18:24] Allan Piper: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It is the thing Jim was saying about we’re, we’re not shooting again until September, right? It is August 28th,

[00:18:31] Jennifer Leigh Houston: so I had to, oh, I, I destroyed my hair getting the blue out.

Wow. I wow. Just right. It was just awful. Anyway,

[00:18:40] Sally Struthers: whatever. That’s, you’re like me. I’m all over the map. I sent a happy may mayday to my friend on. May 1st, but it wasn’t May 1st, it was March 1st. Oh, see, yeah. I get, I just get scattered about day, what month

[00:18:54] Jennifer Leigh Houston: of year. Yeah. Especially lockdown for us in New York City was, was pretty extreme.

I don’t know what it was [00:19:00] like in Los Angeles, but we were like trapped rats. Yeah. It honestly, I

[00:19:03] Bob Wheeler: was fortunate because, As a cpa, I was considered essential. Oh, you are? Oh yeah. So we got, I got to go to an office every day and so we kept our office running. Um, the club closed down completely. It was actually weird the first night we actually had people back in the club.

I kept going, get out, get, what are you people doing here? This is an empty club. Um, so it was very, It was very weird though. Everything was empty. And I mean, were you here in CO for Covid in la I was.

[00:19:30] Sally Struthers: I was home and in my house with my nephew and his wife and child who we all lived together. And, um, I, I thank God for them because I would’ve been a alone for a year and a half.

Yeah, that’s a long time. And they, they helped. Me get through it and I helped them. Um, it was fascinating how you learn to order your groceries over the phone and to not get upset when they bring you bananas with brown spots on them already, and unless you ordered oranges. [00:20:00] Yeah. Which, yes. Um, I, I’m not good alone.

Yeah. Which is probably why horror films, the idea of who scares the patooty outta me because everything to me is frightening in life. Yeah. Going to see a movie by myself can’t do it. Yeah. My home that I live in for 25 years just happened to come with a swimming pool. I’ve never been in it. Water scares the patooty outta me.

Yeah. I’m scared of so many things. So, so I was really glad to have them through, through Covid. Yeah.

No,

[00:20:29] Bob Wheeler: that’s awesome. Yeah. Well, speaking of scary, I was just gonna ask, have you ever had, um, a ghost experience or do you believe in ghosts or have you had something where you went, nah, there’s something in the air.

[00:20:40] Sally Struthers: I prayed nightly and sometimes out loud during the day. In the previous home I lived in, because everyone, house guests, my daughter, everyone saw the ghost but me in the, I lived in Rita Hayward’s old house over in Redwood, California. Nice. Just blocks from where OJ killed his wife. Oh. [00:21:00] Go. And, um, allegedly.

[00:21:02] Jennifer Leigh Houston: Oh, well,

[00:21:03] Sally Struthers: yeah, my ain’t moving on my, my, my nephew. You know how. Yeah, peripherally you, if you don’t see it peripherally, you just consent. Sometimes it’s in your car, right? And you’re starting to go away at your nose and then you realize the person in the car’s looking at you up there. And so, but my nephew felt someone in the doorway of the upstairs TV room in that house.

This was a 6,800 square foot house. Yeah. We all got lost in there and, He turned and looked and there was this gossamer looking woman with her hair up all pretty in a long gown. And he stood up cuz he was so frightened. I, you know, I don’t move, I’m like a deer. Yeah, I’m frozen. But he, he stood up and then she just, Evaporated.

Wow. But that was the woman that my daughter kept seeing in her bedroom. Wow. And then the woman I bought the home from, a lovely older lady named Marjorie Rainey, told me that she was told when her [00:22:00] parents bought the house that there was an a drunken adult game of hide and go seek going on in this house in the 1940s.

When Rita Hayworth lived in it and someone saw a closet right before the entrance to the kitchen, probably thought it was a, a broom closet. They were opening the handle of, and, and her drunkenness went to jump in the broom closet and it was the stairway to the basement and she fell and broke her neck.

Wow. So, We and died. So we’re assuming that that woman that keeps wandering the house is the person that was at the party.

[00:22:36] Bob Wheeler: Wow. You don’t play adult drunken,

[00:22:39] Sally Struthers: you go, it’s not a good idea in a house. You don’t know.

[00:22:41] Bob Wheeler: Yeah. It’s little dangerous. Well, we have, I think we have, I think there’s about five entities that have been identified here, um, at the comedy store.

Um, now I have not had a personal encounter, but I could tell you I’ve. Been in the building, locking up by myself. It’s terrifying. Even the general manager, everybody’s like, [00:23:00] if you’re the last one in the building, you are running through and checking the windows, and you’re like, and then you’ll get to the alarm and it’s like, Window unlocked.

Now you have to go through all three stories of the building in the dark. It’s, it’s not fun. No, it’s terrifying. But I do have, I do have one ghost story that happened to me and I, and a lot of people, like they brought in people that measure, and that’s all been, it’s well documented. But I was, I had to get something, I had to make a copy of something.

I had to go to the third floor. It was late at night, and we have these stairs with this big window, um, to the outside. And it was dark. I had my light on my phone and walking up the stairs with the server so we could make a copy. And we look up and there’s a person in the window, right? And we’re like, oh my God.

And it turns out it was a reflection of a poster poly short put up for as late as movie. Oh my God. And the way the light hit, right? Yeah, yeah. Oh, we were like, thanks, Polly. Um, cuz we scared the bejesus out of us. Oh yeah. It’s scary. And even your mind just starts going crazy. Um, [00:24:00] I had a manager come to me one time and said, everybody’s telling me the club is haunted.

And I said, it is. He quit. Like, he literally is like, I’m, yeah, I’m quitting. I’m like, yeah, but you haven’t seen anything. He goes, I don’t need to. He, I don’t want to. So it’s scary.

[00:24:15] Sally Struthers: Yeah. I cannot let my hand. Or my foot be even an inch over the edge of the bed. Me neither. Me neither. Because gotta be covered.

I still have the child like mine that there’s a monster under the bed. Oh, I’m pretty sure. And that if I let my foot over or my hand, they’re gonna come and grab it and pull me under. Oh, I’m with you. I’m with you. I, my body senses what I’m doing when I’m sleeping. And if I. Kick off the covers and a foot goes hanging over, I wake up and pull my foot back.

[00:24:47] Allan Piper: Yeah. But it’s nice that the monsters under the bed are respectful of the boundaries. They are. Du That’s true. You don’t go over the edge. It’s not gonna come

[00:24:55] Bob Wheeler: creeping around and look, that’s true. They do have, he said some something

[00:24:58] Sally Struthers: that makes no sense.

[00:24:59] Bob Wheeler: [00:25:00] I know that to look, I’m, I didn’t get in a swimming pool after I saw Jaws, and I wouldn’t take a bath because I’m like, It’s gonna come through the drain.

Like Bob. Yep.

[00:25:07] Sally Struthers: Absolutely. Hey, I don’t, my uncle Ross, Lynn Foot was a plumber and he told us that this cu customer of his, an older woman called him one night screaming at one in the morning, you have to come over here, you have to come over her. What? Something bit me. And she, she went in the dark and sat down on the commode.

Oh no. And a rat had been swimming through the pipes and was in the toilet. And bit her, bit her petie, so her bit, her twinkle. Yeah, so she had, you know, when you get a bite from something that may be rabid, you went to go to the hospital and have all those shots in your stomach. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he had to come over and pull the rat out of the toilet for, so you, you’re not foolish to think that jaws could come swim through your p the little baby

[00:25:51] Bob Wheeler: jaws.

It’s a little big. Jaws still bite. Big bite, big bite. But it’s amazing

[00:25:55] Jennifer Leigh Houston: what sticks with you. I am a very, I know I sound crazy. To [00:26:00] everybody out there listening, I am not crazy. What I am is crazy like a fox. I married that guy. Uh, no, but it, but it’s what’s amazing is the stuff that lingers from your childhood.

No, no, for sure. For I re, I re, my parents bought the house that I lived in. They got it. They moved in a week before I was born, and right before my parents moved in, somebody committed suicide in the house. Wow. So that house was, 100% not Okay. Energetically. Yeah. And then that would in my bedroom, that the room that was doing, but that, that’s not even why I brought up the house that we, it didn’t have a pool.

My dad put a pool in and I remember being four years old and him holding me and bopping me around in my, in the pool. And I said, dad, where are the holes? He goes, that’s where the snakes

[00:26:44] Sally Struthers: live. Oh, oh, oh. I was four. Wow.

[00:26:49] Jennifer Leigh Houston: And that is not what you tell a very, you know, Fragile four year old. And to this day, I really don’t like to be in a pool [00:27:00] by myself.

And I know perfectly well that snakes are not going to pump pouring out of every, out of every hole. I mean, on a good day, you might catch a frog in the skimmer. That happened a lot. But, um, I would

[00:27:14] Sally Struthers: only eat bread and peanut butter for the first five years of my life. And I did a variation in the morning.

I wanted peanut butter toast in the afternoon or at school. And I started preschool at school. It was a peanut butter sandwich in my little lunchbox, and at dinner, very elegant. A toasted peanut butter sandwich like you do. Oh, okay. So my parents got concerned that I was only eating peanut butter and bread.

I wasn’t eating fruit or vegetables or protein. They know now. You know, all these years later that peanut butter’s full of everything. Yeah. Your body needs and you’re not gonna get sick. And my father was a doctor, so he sits down in the bed one night. I was maybe not even five yet. My sister’s over there in that twin bed.

I’m here and he’s talking to me in the dark and he says, [00:28:00] Sally, I said, yes, daddy. He said, Sally, you know how you love that peanut butter so much? Yes, daddy. Well, I just, your mother and I have spoken and we think it’s very important for you to know that you know how you and Susie get a jar from mommy when the jelly’s all gone and.

And she helps you poke holes in the top and then you take the lid off and you go outside and you put some grass and leaves in it, and then you catch a grasshopper or a beetle and you put it in there, put the lid on it. You watch it all day. Yes, daddy, well, you probably didn’t know this, but, but one morning you’re going to wake up inside of a giant peanut butter jar and it’s gonna be so, Big, nobody will be able to open the lid to get you out.

What? I didn’t eat peanut butter for 30 years. Oh, oh my goodness. Good. And I had nightmares, continuous nightmares about being stuck in a jar and not being able to get out. I had. Par parents are crazy. Damn. Yeah, [00:29:00]

[00:29:00] Bob Wheeler: they

[00:29:00] Sally Struthers: urt are crazy. Yeah. But they grab a doctorate.

[00:29:02] Jennifer Leigh Houston: They, they broke you of eating the peanut butter sandwiches, so, so pointing them.

Mission accomplished. There you go. Yeah. Huh.

[00:29:09] Allan Piper: But what did, what did you eat instead? Then

[00:29:12] Sally Struthers: pudding.

[00:29:13] Bob Wheeler: Because that doesn’t come in a jar. So, smart choice. A smart choice. My god, that’s too funny. So what was the most exciting thing about this film when you like. All these different things going on. Haunted House.

You got Sally, you’ve written it like. You’ve, you’ve used your life savings.

[00:29:33] Allan Piper: Well, I, I think, I think what is always the most exciting thing about a film, well, first of all, I, I, um, I, I don’t know if we’ve actually said, so the movie, it’s the story of a New York couple who knowingly move into a Honda apartment because the rent is cheap.

Right? Uh, Jen plays, uh, The, the lead role, she’s, uh, she’s the wife and the couple, and she’s the person that the haunted events happen most to. Uh, Sally plays a very important role [00:30:00] that the, uh, basically that the whole mystery of the apartment. Turns on. And, uh, so, uh, sorry, I just wanted to make sure people knew, uh, the, just the, the premise of the movie.

Uh, so I think what’s most exciting about a movie is always the, the unexpected things that the other people involved bring to it. Uh, movies are, I think, probably the most collaborative art form. It’s not like a novel where the novelist sits down and, and creates it all himself. So as a, as a writer and as a director, I had all sorts of, uh, visions in mind.

And the exciting thing is you, you work with other people and they exceed, uh, your visions. Uh, Jen was, uh, I, I wrote, I wrote roles for her where she had to be funny and scared and scary and angry because I knew that she, I knew that she could perform in all of these ways, but she performed in ways that.

Exceeded my expectations, and that made,

[00:30:58] Jennifer Leigh Houston: I’m just finding this out by [00:31:00] the way. How was I? Oh, you were, yeah. Fine.

[00:31:04] Sally Struthers: You are incre, you’re incredible in the film. I wonderful. I’m so proud of

[00:31:08] Jennifer Leigh Houston: you. You’re wonderful. As are

[00:31:08] Allan Piper: you. And, and, and Sally is, she brings to, to her scene. She brings, uh, when I was on set, one moment.

I’m, I’m tearing up, uh, based on her performance and at the next moment I’m having to, Bite my fists so that I don’t crack up and and spoil the take. Uh, and we had, we had so many talented performers and they all exceeded my expectations and they all brought, uh, more to the roles and to the movie than I could have imagined being there on my own.

So for me, that is the most exciting thing about it. I think the most

[00:31:41] Sally Struthers: exciting thing of all is the day that they told me that it was edited, it was done, and they had written to film festivals and it had been accepted to the Coney Island. Film festival. That to me was the culmination of, oh my God, we can now pop open the champagne and, and do some high fives.

You’ve gotten to the finish line. Yeah. That [00:32:00] to me was, yeah. For them, that’s all I want. Especially when Covid interrupted the whole thing. That’s all I wanted was to get to the finish line for them. Yeah.

[00:32:09] Bob Wheeler: Well, I mean, that’s a huge accomplishment because somebody, films get started. They get filmed, they go nowhere.

Yeah. Um, or they don’t get the final edits, so, Final edits, everything, film festivals, it made it to the screen, which a lot of films don’t make it to the screen. Yeah, yeah.

[00:32:27] Jennifer Leigh Houston: A lot of, lot of, anyway, whatever we could go on about. What was your favorite

[00:32:31] Bob Wheeler: thing about, uh, the film? Oh my God. I need to work with your illustrious, wonderful.

[00:32:38] Jennifer Leigh Houston: Husband. It was all amazing. It’s just like Alan said, it was, listen, when you have, we had done, we’ve been together for 16 years. We have done a lot of little projects together. I’m also a singer-songwriter, so he has, he has, he wrote five songs in the movie and I did write five songs in the movie, but he, we’ve done a couple of music videos together.

He helps me out. I help him flush out some little [00:33:00] things, but we had certainly never. Done a feature film together. Um, I was a producer on his last feature film, which was a documentary, so whatever. You know, I could have never imagined that anybody would ever do anything like that for me. You know, I am older, I’m old.

Molder. I, I thought, you know, I molder I’ve had my career, you know, I was primarily a, a musical theater dancer, and when you stopped dancing, the, the phone stops ringing. And I just got, well, you know what? I’ll just hang it up

[00:33:31] Sally Struthers: and wait a minute, I’m gonna interrupt you. What? Because you were talking about this earlier too, to my friend Claudia.

You were, you just arrived an hour ago at my house. Yes. Uh, And I was talking about you having a baking company. Yes. And you I did being very well known in, in the New York area for the insane cakes you make for people, for all sorts of events. And then you were talking to Claudia about speaking bob of, of money.

Yeah. [00:34:00] She. Crazily without thinking of really what it was all about. Decided that, well, she liked to bake. She would open a bakery like

[00:34:06] Jennifer Leigh Houston: you do. Yeah. When your acting career starts to just open it, you just still open a bakery in

[00:34:12] Sally Struthers: New York where there aren’t any other bakeries, right.

[00:34:14] Bob Wheeler: Ever. They don’t have food there.

[00:34:16] Jennifer Leigh Houston: Yeah. I, I took a really bizarre, like hairpin

[00:34:20] Sally Struthers: curve. She did pretty well and her business was called, Shut your

[00:34:23] Jennifer Leigh Houston: cake hole. No, my cake show is called, and Alan makes a cake show for me. So, so I had a bakery, it was called, well first it was called the PMs Cookie Company, and yes, that’s what you were thinking.

And then that didn’t fly. Imagine that. And so then five years into having the company, we had to rename it, this chick bakes. And then we ended up selling it, um, 10 and a half years later. And, Uh, you know, in addition, my partner, I started this bakery after knowing this fellow for six months. He was my boyfriend.

We started a business together. What were we thinking? Anyway, I hated him so much by the end of this bakery thing. Yeah. He had left me for a younger blonder model. We were broken [00:35:00] up, but still living together. It was a nightmare. We hated each other. We couldn’t wait to get away from each other. He ended up being one of my best friends.

But Alan wrote not only this film for me, he wrote. To play my husband, this ex-boyfriend to play my husband, so is just, he’s a generous guy. Build with just so much weirdness. And then I. My ex-boyfriend’s wife, his actual wife plays his sister in our movie. Oh, that’s hilarious. Be just to keep you, it’s

[00:35:26] Allan Piper: janky, you know?

Yes. So, uh, that’s, uh, that’s Charlie Tucker, uh, and, uh, his wife is Michelle Am. Yes. I mean, you see them both on TV all the time. They’re wonderful. Yes. Yeah. Uh, but yeah, Charlie, Charlie plays, uh, Charlie plays Jen’s husband in the movie, and I cast awkward at all. I cast them together because they have a really interesting chemistry together.

And Charlie is a, a wonderful, a wonderful

[00:35:46] Sally Struthers: actor. Yeah. So, so, so Jen makes this television show and she bakes something that you would never dream, could be made in your own kitchen. And Alan films it. Yeah. And, and happens. It’s called Shut Your Cake Hole. Shut

[00:35:58] Jennifer Leigh Houston: Your Cake Hole. And so we, so we [00:36:00] work together in all of those, like smaller little, like, you know, you start a cake show online whatever, like you do you, after you close your bakery.

Yeah. You make music videos and you do this. But I could never have imagined at. I’m gonna say this juncture of my life that anybody would do anything like that for me. And so when he presented me with this script for me to read, I didn’t even know he was writing a movie. So he is like, uh, just wrote this thing for you.

Cuz he has a million other jobs, by the way. Yeah. He just, oh, oh. I wrote a. Movie. I’m like, oh, well take a look at it. And here’s the funny thing. I’m reading. I’m reading. It’s wonderful. I’m delighted. I’m laughing, I’m crying, but I get to this one part and I’m reading this part and I’m like, hearing Sally Struthers voice in my head.

No. At this point we didn’t know Sally so well. This was years ago that he wrote this. Mm-hmm. We had just met Sally and spent an evening with her chatting and loving and anyway, so I obviously, when I finish, I go in and I say, holy crap, are you. Kidding me, this is so fun and wonderful, and I can’t believe you did this real Craig, but let’s go back to this [00:37:00] part.

Rena Baker, when I was reading this, I, I just kind of naturally rhythmically heard Sally Struthers. I’m like, Tell me that you didn’t write that part for Sally Struthers. He goes, maybe,

[00:37:13] Sally Struthers: maybe. I’m like, what makes

[00:37:14] Jennifer Leigh Houston: you think that Sally Struthers is gonna be in our janky little independent film? Well, not instead like, great now I can’t imagine any anyone else doing it.

So it took a long time for me to get. My courage up months and months and months to ask you, what did I say? You said immediately, without even having read it, you said Yes. I was like, holy shit. So I, maybe that was my ma favorite movie of the whole movie was the day Sally Struthers said yes to that she would be

[00:37:44] Allan Piper: in our movie.

Well, and, and, uh, yeah, and, and there’s, there’s a twist. There’s a twist with Sally’s character that we won’t, uh, that we won’t discuss. But it is, but it is, it is. Um, yes. Sally definitely brings she handle so much. No, I’m kidding. So much, so much to the movie [00:38:00] and uh, we

are,

[00:38:00] Sally Struthers: I’m only in it a little tiny bit, but yeah, just enough.

It’s, it’s perfect.

[00:38:05] Bob Wheeler: And you know what, I’ve watched movies where people have been in it for two minutes and won Academy Awards. Yes. Because that two minutes is pivotal to the whole movie. So it doesn’t matter how long you’re in the movie, it’s the impact.

[00:38:16] Allan Piper: Well, I am with. With everyone in every role. I just feel incredibly blessed by the actors that I got to work with.

Uh, and, and the wonderful experience of of getting to, getting to direct my wife. Uh, it just, I’m thrilled to have been surrounded by so much talent on this film. No, that is so

[00:38:35] Bob Wheeler: cool. That is so cool. Well, I know we’re getting close to the end, so I’m gonna actually shift the energy for just a second. Um, and I’m gonna ask you, we, we have a thing called test your Nerve.

And so I’m gonna ask you each, so questions about money and then we’ll, we’ll do a little wrap up. So, you know, we’re gonna ask about balance and stuff like that. So I’m gonna, Alan, first question you is, how did you feel when you realized you were gonna pull all your money out for, uh, to do this film? Like, what was the emotion that went on?[00:39:00]

I, it,

[00:39:00] Allan Piper: it.

[00:39:05] Bob Wheeler: Uh, you know, I have, I had, uh, I had

[00:39:07] Allan Piper: cars, I had belief, uh, uh, that, um, I had faith in this film that this film would be, uh, and, uh, uh, it will, it is, uh, it’s being distributed by, uh, Lionheart distribution. So, uh, I have confidence that it will be coming to, uh, coming to either a, a theater or a streaming platform near you in the near future.

So, uh, it is, it’s a bold thing to, uh, make an independent film, but I have, I had confidence that it would All

[00:39:37] Jennifer Leigh Houston: nausea. No. Uh, that’s my, that’s my, you’ve the NA

[00:39:41] Sally Struthers: Film Festival so far. When you make an independent non. Studio produced film. Yeah. You’ve gotta enter a hundred film festivals. Hope you get in seven or eight of them.

And if you do well, won an win an award or two. Maybe someone will say, they’ll be your, your distributor for your film and Yeah. They’ll get it placed somewhere. Yeah. First film festival, [00:40:00] one best film. They have a distributor already.

[00:40:02] Bob Wheeler: Yeah. Where

[00:40:03] Allan Piper: it’s awesome. We are, we are, we are off to an auspicious start.

And I, I believe it’s because of, uh, I, I believe it’s because of the, all of the great talent that we have in the movie. There you go. Yeah.

[00:40:13] Bob Wheeler: No, that’s awesome. All right, Sally, for you, what, what was the, um, what was the first time you realized, oh, I’m actually gonna be able to make a living? Uh, Doing acting.

[00:40:22] Sally Struthers: Do actors ever feel they’re going to make a living? Yeah. You see, because there’s a, there’s a very, uh, valid fear that you get a job, it eventually comes to an end. It can end in a week or a month if it’s a movie of the week or, or a play. Mm-hmm. And then you don’t know when you’re gonna get another job.

So I don’t think there’s a lot of actors who ever think, oh, well I’m now, I’m gonna do Okay. Because I, my, one of my dearest friends who I introduced to Jen and Ellen is the wonderful actress thread of a carro. And, um, she’s, she can [00:41:00] act rings around me. She is fascinating and bright and deserves every award in the world for how, what an arts she is, and yet she can’t get arrested.

And I keep working. So what, what dictates that? I don’t know. Yeah. But, um, I’ve done really, basically for the last 25 years, mostly only, uh, theater. Yeah. And I’m, I’m, I go to all these regional theaters. Yeah. At different places in the country to do a play just for that theater or a musical. That’s awesome.

And so I’m occupied for six weeks, two weeks of rehearsal, a four week run of the play or the musical. And then I pack up my suitcase and I go over here to this city and I meet 50 new people and I learn all their names and I learn a whole new show. And I do that for six weeks, and then I pack up my si. I mean, I’ve been living like a vagabond mm-hmm.

For years now. So when these two said, well, Alan’s written a [00:42:00] yes, I’ll do it. Yes. I, I don’t have to go learn 50 people’s new names. No. Oh my God. Yeah. Just four no act, I don’t think actors ever feel secure. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Because you’re the flavor of the month right now, and then you can be put through a 10 period year period of a drought mm-hmm.

Where you can’t get arrested and you start waitressing or you whatever. Yeah. Where you open a baking company. Yeah. Like you do. Like you do? Like you do? No, I have never felt financially sound.

[00:42:28] Bob Wheeler: Okay. Yeah, I think that’s true for a lot of artists. I do. I do. What about you? What is it that gives you this risk taking that, oh, I’ll do dancing.

No, now I’ll do a bakery. Oh, now I’ll go sing and I’ll write songs and, oh, let me. You just pivot, pivot, pivot. Yeah.

[00:42:42] Jennifer Leigh Houston: Yeah. What, how I, I don’t know how, you know, I’ve been in New York for 32 years and I’ve had always had a million jobs. I always excel at whatever I really commit to, and I’ve always landed on my feet.

And I feel the same way about, um, you [00:43:00] know, My, any, any collaboration with Alan, you know what? Whatever will be, it’ll, what it’ll be, what it’ll be. We are gonna land on our feet. I always do. I always have. I’ve been homeless at times and I mean that, like living in a truck on the side of Shark Key, you know, like, you know, showering on the beach, all of that.

But that’s, you know what, that’s exciting, you know, live a little,

[00:43:21] Bob Wheeler: um, As long as you’re breathing, you always have the opportunity. Exactly. To get yourself into a better. Exactly. Always. Yeah.

[00:43:26] Jennifer Leigh Houston: Always just be, just be creative. You just gotta be creative about it and there is a certain amount of self-belief.

You just have to have. You gotta believe we’re gonna land on our feet. It’s gonna be okay.

[00:43:35] Sally Struthers: Listen, Bob, I don’t understand money. Mm-hmm. I don’t understand where it comes from and what you’re supposed to do with it. I don’t understand how to save or pay attention to whether or not the bank account’s going up or down.

So I’ve lived my whole adult life with a C p A business manager. Yeah. Who can reign me in. They try really hard. I’m not being good reign, for instance, when I go [00:44:00] to Maine or to Virginia to do something. Everybody in those business offices, in those places of work are told on day one that they are not allowed to hand me my paycheck.

And, and when you’re in show business, Thursday is job appreciation Day. Thursday you get your check. I never see it because they. They’ve been told that the, the check for me has to be mailed to Los Angeles to people who will take the money and do the right thing with it. Because if it were handed to me, I would immediately go to every antique store in a 30 mile mm-hmm.

Vicinity, and I would be sending home more furniture with no room in my house to place it. Okay. Yeah, no, I’m not good. You’re not good money.

[00:44:40] Bob Wheeler: And you know what? Oh, most people aren’t so, and that’s why we love talking about money. That’s why, because everything we do, Has a money impact. Whether we take a risk, we don’t take a risk, whether we spend money, we don’t spend money, money impacts all of us.

Um, I know we’re coming to the end here. Where can people find the film? What would you suggest? Go to the, you’ve got a [00:45:00] website with the trailer and all that good stuff. Oh, can I just tell

[00:45:03] Sally Struthers: them before you answer that evil sublet. Like E period, V V I L. Like East Village? Yes, east. East. Like for the people that are watching this that are probably way more sophisticated than I am, but like Soho stands for south of Houseton Street in, in New York.

In abbreviation we live in soho, your south of Houseton. So e v is East Village, but Eil sublet also means it’s

[00:45:28] Allan Piper: eagle. Yeah. Yes. So, uh, if you, uh, if you go to evil sublet.com, if you follow us, uh, evil Sublet on Twitter or on Facebook, uh, you can see updates on when and where there will be an opportunity to see the movie, and I hope it will soon be available for people to see, uh, the world over.

No, that’s

[00:45:46] Bob Wheeler: awesome. Well, I encourage everybody to go see this movie. You’ll pee in your pants and you’ll laugh because it’s comedy and horror and a whole bunch of stuff in between. Thanks so much for all of you. Yeah. Thank you, Sally. Thank you, Alan. Jennifer, thank. Thank you so much. It’s been awesome. Thank

[00:45:59] Sally Struthers: you.

Thank [00:46:00] you for moving the lights for us, G.

[00:46:02] Bob Wheeler: Absolutely. Absolutely. Thanks so much. Thank. Thank you.

Hey there, money Master. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Did you learn some valuable insights around your relationship with money? Our guest shared some of their financial epiphanies. You might have experienced one too. Don’t just sit there with that aha moment. Share it with us and the world by leaving a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast platform, or leave comment on one of our socials at money.

You should ask. Let’s spread the word and help others explore their financial health too. But that’s not all. Do you wanna live in abundance and build wealth that can sustain you and your family for generations to come? It only takes one thing, the willingness to change the way you think about your money.

It’s time to test your money nerve and discover what’s been holding you back from financial freedom. Take the free quiz now@themoneynerve.com and begin your journey towards a prosperous [00:47:00] future.