William, it is so great to have you on the show.

William Hung:
Thank you for having me. I love talking about money and finance.

bob_wheeler:
All right, well, that’s what we’re going to talk about today, and maybe a little bit of fame and

William Hung:
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

bob_wheeler:
fortune and all that good stuff as well, because you’ve had it all. So most people recognize you from American idols. What was the most memorable moment when you were on that?

William Hung:
Well, it was when I responded by when Simon stopped me in the middle of the chorus. I sang the song She Bangs by Ricky Martin and Simon said like, Thank you. Thank you. You can sing. You can dance. So what you want me to say? And I said, I already gave my best. I have no regrets at all. And Paula said, good for you. That’s the best attitude yet. I said, I had no professional training and Simon goes, No, well that’s a surprise of the century.

bob_wheeler:
Thank you. You know, I think what’s really awesome about that is the fact that you showed up and you just wanted to sing,

William Hung:
Yes.

bob_wheeler:
right? You weren’t going in to be like number one, but if you don’t show up and audition, if you don’t show up, nothing’s going to happen.

William Hung:
Yeah, of course.

bob_wheeler:
So that’s amazing that you showed up. I mean, what would you say to somebody who’s on stage and not necessarily getting well-received or getting booed or anything like that? What would you say to somebody like that?

William Hung:
Well, if you never try, you never know what could happen in life. Because my plan was that I didn’t have a lot of expectations. I didn’t have any. You know, I brought,

bob_wheeler:
Right.

William Hung:
most of the time they’re gonna say, no, I go home and that’s it. But I thought, okay, well,

bob_wheeler:
Bye.

William Hung:
I can try other auditions. I can try other kinds of shows. You never know.

bob_wheeler:
Yeah, no, that’s awesome. I mean, because when you’re in the limelight like you were, right? People are going to make comments. People, you’re being seen. You’re stepping up and you are visible. So some people are going to go amazing. Some people are going to high five. Some people are going to go, that’s terrible. Or you’re going to get a, there’s always going to be a critic.

William Hung:
Right.

bob_wheeler:
So how do you keep yourself moving forward when you do get that criticism?

William Hung:
Well, focus on the positive and focus on what you have control over.

bob_wheeler:
When you finished American Idol, how did your relationship with money change? How was it before? And then did anything change after a little bit of this fame and attention?

William Hung:
That’s a great question because I grew up in a family. I wouldn’t say like very poor, but we did have to struggle. We had to be frugal to save money every day we can. So I grew up from that background. And then when I got popular from American Idol, I got this record contract, $25,000 for a college kid, you know, 20 years ago.

bob_wheeler:
Nice.

William Hung:
That’s a big change. It’s like all of a sudden,

bob_wheeler:
Yeah.

William Hung:
I could pay off most of my debt, my parents’ debt, I could help them out a lot. We totally changed our life. So I think I went from like, well, I have to pinch every penny to like, okay, well, maybe we can live a good life, but with no reason.

bob_wheeler:
And was it different when you went out in public and people would say, wait, I know you. Or people sing for you, I would imagine everybody wants to reenact your performance.

William Hung:
Well, I think the most common reaction I got was like, Oh my god, I knew that she bangs guy. Could I take a picture with you?

bob_wheeler:
pretty cool. You know, I mean, again, if you hadn’t shown up, people wouldn’t have known

William Hung:
Yeah.

bob_wheeler:
you, whether you win or lose, you, you win because you show

William Hung:
Bye.

bob_wheeler:
up. What struggles did you encounter in, if any, like after American Idol? Like, was there a transition the first few months or the first couple of years? What was that like?

William Hung:
Well, I lived my dream life for about four years. I got all the big performance opportunities, commercials. I made very good money doing it too. So that was the top. But then things started to fall apart because I wanted to settle down. I want to get married. And I didn’t know what it means to get married or marry the right person.

bob_wheeler:
Yeah. Oh. Ha ha. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

William Hung:
So I gave away a lot of money I earned. through two divorces. So

bob_wheeler:
Ha ha.

William Hung:
that’s definitely a lesson learned. Like the first one, I just thought any pretty girl, you know, it seems good, talks very nice, maybe okay, but that was very naive, very immature. And

bob_wheeler:
Yeah.

William Hung:
then the second one, I screwed up because, you know, it was the other opposite. So it wasn’t good enough for me. So I get I gambled

bob_wheeler:
Right.

William Hung:
I took a shot I went into sports betting I I made a lot of money in the beginning but I lost it all and then I also lost my second wife

bob_wheeler:
Wow.

William Hung:
So yeah, it’s definitely a roller coaster

bob_wheeler:
Yeah, it sounds like it. I mean, what was that like when you were winning? Right? I mean, when you’re high rolling and the money’s coming in, But when the money starts getting taken off the table and you start losing the money, does it spiral? I mean, do you get more like, wait, this time, like, does it get a little bit desperate or are you just sort of roll with it?

William Hung:
Well, I did get desperate because I noticed that I bet bigger and bigger as I started losing my money for gambling. And that’s what got me into trouble. So it’s a very expensive lesson. But the good news is that I was able to stop before I gave away everything and sleep on the streets.

bob_wheeler:
OK, that’s cool. That’s good. Did your parents know you were gambling?

William Hung:
They didn’t really know every bit of it. They knew that something not right is like like I didn’t have the courage to tell them exactly what it was until recently

bob_wheeler:
Do you think, um, do you think like that when all that happened, um, that there was like shame or at least internal shame or just disappointment in yourself? Like, what are some of the things that, uh, like that you went through when you had this happen?

William Hung:
Well, I definitely felt shame and disappointment with myself because I feel like, you know, I’m a math major. I know better than that. It’s like, why am I doing it?

bob_wheeler:
Yeah, yeah. And how did you, like when you told your parents eventually, what did they, how did they react?

William Hung:
They were very disappointed with me. They wish that I told them earlier. But they told me that it’s a good thing you know when to stop. I still own multiple houses. My life is good. But

bob_wheeler:
Right.

William Hung:
I could have gone down that really bad round path. I could have made it a lot worse, basically.

bob_wheeler:
So that’s great. So you caught yourself on mid-fall

William Hung:
Yes.

bob_wheeler:
and pivoted so that the impact

William Hung:
Right.

bob_wheeler:
wasn’t so bad. Who is the one person that has had the biggest influence on you and your life?

William Hung:
Wow, it’s very hard for me to pinpoint one person, but I do have a mentor in mind because, you know, when I work with her, she told me it’s like, if money and resources are not a problem for you, what do you want to be doing?

bob_wheeler:
Yeah, absolutely. And what was the answer to that?

William Hung:
Well, I love games. But

bob_wheeler:
Yeah.

William Hung:
the way I say games may not be the most traditional sense of just playing you know, board games with family because I do like gaming in general. I like eSports, I like poker, I like trading. So I have that in me. So I,

bob_wheeler:
Yeah.

William Hung:
and moving fast forward to like now, you know, I’m very grateful that I learned my fiance and I also

bob_wheeler:
Yeah.

William Hung:
hold myself accountable for sticking to my plan, you know, not doing anything crazy.

bob_wheeler:
Yeah, accountability is a big word, probably a big important

William Hung:
Yes.

bob_wheeler:
word. So that’s great. That’s great. So you now talk with your fiancee about money and

William Hung:
Yes. Yes.

bob_wheeler:
plans, all

William Hung:
Yes.

bob_wheeler:
that kind of stuff. So would you say that you’re a lot more intentional?

William Hung:
Yeah, I think intentional is the best way to approach life. It’s like you start with the end in mind. It’s like, what do you want in your life? You know, what do you enjoy? And then, like, once you figure that part out, you can say, like, OK, well, what are some next steps I need to take to get to where I want to be?

bob_wheeler:
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So I’m wondering, you know, the Oscars were big for Asian Americans,

William Hung:
Yes.

bob_wheeler:
right? They swept. And, you know, one of the things Ki Hui Kwan said, don’t give

William Hung:
Yes.

bob_wheeler:
up your dreams, right? And he said, I almost gave

William Hung:
Yeah.

bob_wheeler:
up on mine. Well, you know, when I heard that and I knew we were talking and I know you talk about pursuing your dreams, I don’t know if you saw that

William Hung:
I

bob_wheeler:
speech,

William Hung:
saw it.

bob_wheeler:
Okay, awesome. I’m wondering, as a Chinese American, like, how do you take that in and how does that impact your American dream?

William Hung:
Well, anything is possible. And what struck me about that winning speech from Key is that, you know, he talked about how he was the immigrant on a boat and then what his wife

bob_wheeler:
Hmm?

William Hung:
told him, your time will come. And it’s a very difficult belief to have and to live. You know, I’m very glad I found my future wife that has that similar belief that I can’t do what I love own way to my own definitions of sets basically. It’s not like traditional all, you’ll have to work a day job, you’ll have to be in coaching whatever that standard that other people put on you, you don’t have to conform to that.

bob_wheeler:
Absolutely. And I, you know, I was impressed with when he said, my wife has said for the last 20 years, your time will come. It seems like if we follow our passion, not doing it because it’s going to make a lot

William Hung:
Right.

bob_wheeler:
fame and fortune, but we’re doing it because

William Hung:
Yes.

bob_wheeler:
we love it. Our time will come because we’re not, we’re actually living

William Hung:
Yes.

bob_wheeler:
our passion. Do you think as Asian American, as Chinese American, like you’ve had different struggles than maybe other people have had?

William Hung:
Yeah.

bob_wheeler:
Can you talk a little bit about what some of those struggles have

William Hung:
Well,

bob_wheeler:
been?

William Hung:
everybody, I want to be careful not to generalize nowadays because, you know,

bob_wheeler:
Yeah,

William Hung:
but

bob_wheeler:
yeah,

William Hung:
for

bob_wheeler:
for

William Hung:
my

bob_wheeler:
sure,

William Hung:
case,

bob_wheeler:
for sure.

William Hung:
I think that people, the biggest I look like a nerdy kid, you know, to this day, even though I’m

bob_wheeler:
Right.

William Hung:
40 years young. So, people think that, oh, you shouldn’t be in showbiz, related to that field. And there’s some truth to that because I don’t have real professional training. It’s not like I’m usually trained since I was growing up or I don’t even take

bob_wheeler:
Yeah.

William Hung:
that many acting classes. So a lot of people, you know, they have a reason to believe that I don’t belong there. But for the way I see it, it’s like, well, now it’s so different because it doesn’t matter so much what you do. whether you’re teaching finance,

bob_wheeler:
Right.

William Hung:
you’re in gaming, you’re teaching health, whatever it is, you need some influence out there. So that’s why I’m not gonna give up on that, no matter what. Maybe I don’t have to do 100%, but maybe I could be 50%, 25%, whatever, but I feel like in order to make the impact that you want to make, you need that influence and you wanna keep that out there.

bob_wheeler:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think one of the things that I really appreciate and doing what you wanted to do, regardless of the outside critics, is that you just went for it. And I think so many people have a dream, wanna show up in a certain way, and because they’re afraid that they won’t do it perfect, they’re afraid that somebody might make a comment, they’re afraid that something will go wrong, right? And so there’s all these reasons, and so a lot of people, or giving voice to their passion, or trying to make a difference, they hold back because, well, they might laugh at me, or maybe my dream is too lofty. And so I really appreciate that you said, you know what, I’m just going for it. I don’t have any expectations. I’m just going to show up. I’m going to put it out there. What message do you want people to take away from your work? And from the story of success that you’ve had?

William Hung:
Focus on taking the next step that can get you closer to your dream, whatever that may be. You know, one of the crazy dreams I had recently was I wanted to create a board game to help people chase their dreams, try out different careers, different businesses. But I realized that, you know, that’s also not my area of expertise. I also don’t want to spend like all day every day So, when I sat down and have that honest reflection, that’s when I realized, oh, okay, well, I don’t have to do everything by myself. I can collaborate. I can invest in the right project and then manage the risk. I don’t have to go all in.

bob_wheeler:
Yeah, that’s great. That’s great. Collaboration is a great way to go. You minimize risk and still sharing the wealth. I’d rather have 50% of something than

William Hung:
right.

bob_wheeler:
100% of nothing. Absolutely. Do you think that it’s true that reaching fame and that reaching fame equals success and wealth?

William Hung:
Hmm, depends on how you define success. Because the traditional definition of success is like, yes, you need to have millions of dollars into your name. You have financial freedom. We don’t have to work if you don’t want to, all that. But there’s something else that’s missing. That’s living with joy every day. That one, you cannot quantify. You cannot put a number to it. There are people who make much more money than I do miserable, but there are also people who make

bob_wheeler:
Yeah.

William Hung:
way less than I do and feel amazing. So if I have that choice, I much rather make less and feel amazing.

bob_wheeler:
Yeah. Absolutely. So let me ask you this. Did you always have that joy? Is that something you cultivated? How did you discover your joy and your gratitude?

William Hung:
Wow. The way I do it is that I try to, I do that I focus my time and energy on the things that I want to focus on. You know, it is so for me personally, it’s something related to game, math and finance. So some combination of those fields. So if you tell it, so if I were to just take a job, even if it’s a very high paying job, that doesn’t align with those fields and those areas, And that’s what happened to me for like eight years.

bob_wheeler:
Yeah.

William Hung:
I know yes I got a pretty good job at the government. I’m grateful for the opportunity I learned so much, but I also don’t want to be stuck there for the next 10 or 20 years So that’s why I took the risk, you know, I got into poker. I got back into entertainment And that’s why I am today

bob_wheeler:
Yeah, that’s awesome. That’s awesome. Why is reputation more important than money?

William Hung:
Because reputation is something that takes years to build, but only a day to destroy. The brand is so important. Over the years, working in showbiz, there’s some difficult truths that people might not know about. One of them is that you have to be very careful with what projects I say yes to. Because sometimes the movie or the

bob_wheeler:
Yeah.

William Hung:
commercial, it requires you to criticize other people or say bad things about other people. And I feel like that one is always going to come back and bite me. So I say no, you know, because you cannot replace that reputation.

bob_wheeler:
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Now you’ve written

William Hung:
Yes.

bob_wheeler:
a book. Tell me about the book and what was the impetus for writing

William Hung:
Well,

bob_wheeler:
it.

William Hung:
the book, the name is called Champion by Choice. The idea is that you can become a champion regardless of your circumstances. The idea behind writing this book is to leave a legacy. So because no matter how many interviews or speaking gigs I do, I cannot share my entire story. So I want to have something out there where there’s no gaps in my whole story. It’s complete.

bob_wheeler:
That’s awesome. Why is legacy important to you?

William Hung:
Well, once you get to the end of your life journey, and I still have many years if I can say that, it’s more like what do you want me to remember forth?

bob_wheeler:
Yeah, it’s important. And why do you want to, like, what is it inside of you that says, you know what, I want to share this message. I want to inspire people. I want to give people hope. I want to help people go for their dreams and be a champion by choice. What, what is it inside of you that drives you to do that?

William Hung:
Because I’m a living example for trying many different things in life, but not that not about most of it don’t work out the way I want. And that’s normal. So also the way I design and create my dream life, it’s

bob_wheeler:
Thank

William Hung:
not

bob_wheeler:
you.

William Hung:
the traditional way of doing it. For example, I don’t have a strict calendar.

bob_wheeler:
Yeah. Right.

William Hung:
do what comes to my mind. I’m more spontaneous like that. And then it’s also like I like to, like I said, I still like poker, but I don’t want to just rely on poker. For me, it’s more like to use that experience to try out other ventures. I’m not sure what that is yet, and that’s okay.

bob_wheeler:
No, that’s great. That’s great. Now, did your parents, I’m curious when hearing all this, were your parents instrumental in your mindset? Did they talk to you about money? Did they talk to you about fame? Did they try and talk to you out of it? Like, what were the conversations with your parents, especially as you were growing up and then when you got to college and then you went for it?

William Hung:
Well,

bob_wheeler:
What was that

William Hung:
my

bob_wheeler:
like?

William Hung:
mom has the biggest influence on me because she told me that if you want to get a good job, you need to study. You need to go to school. And I agree. You know, maybe the traditional word of school is not like just going to the school in your classroom, but you still need to spend a lot of time learning the skill that you want to improve on. You want to be great at. And then after the fame from American Idol, She really wish that I just go get a stable job again because I’m about to get married You know, she she feels like I’m taking too much risk. I told her that’s not necessarily true because every every Decision has risk now, you know, even if I were to get a job

bob_wheeler:
Right.

William Hung:
I could get laid off, you know next month next day. Who knows, right? Like like like what

bob_wheeler:
Yeah.

William Hung:
at this stage in my life is like why do I want to just for $20 an hour job when I can create something much

bob_wheeler:
Right.

William Hung:
better.

bob_wheeler:
Absolutely. Well, speaking of $20 an hour,

William Hung:
Yeah.

bob_wheeler:
you’re in Vegas now. Is it much cheaper to live there than living in Los Angeles?

William Hung:
depends

bob_wheeler:
Or is it about the same?

William Hung:
on what you’re looking for. I think the rent is cheaper. If you’re trying to start a business and run a business, as Nebat Las Vegas is amazing because no state tax.

bob_wheeler:
Absolutely. We love

William Hung:
I think

bob_wheeler:
that.

William Hung:
the gas is also a little bit cheaper. Food is about the same. And then it depends on your lifestyle. I think that buying a house in Vegas is amazing right now. It’s under $200,000 for two bedroom. So

bob_wheeler:
Wow.

William Hung:
you can find it, and it’s a good place. You don’t have to find a bad place for that. And that’s why I did it.

bob_wheeler:
No, that’s not bet. No, that’s awesome. Now, you said you don’t really keep a strict calendar. Do you budget? Do you track

William Hung:
I

bob_wheeler:
your

William Hung:
used

bob_wheeler:
money?

William Hung:
to be bad at it, but now I’m better. I do have a budget now I have a loose budget

bob_wheeler:
Yeah.

William Hung:
but I still have it like I would have an app I would track Oh, this is how much you know minimum expense I need for each month So it’s not it’s nothing crazy, you know Like I mentioned like that live the basic living necessities. I have it there and and then you know some some some Expans I would say it’s like You don’t have to have it, but it’s compelling. For

bob_wheeler:
Yeah.

William Hung:
example, I invest some money in the cash value life insurance. We have 6% dividend, amazing.

bob_wheeler:
Right. Right. And do you think, oh, give me a second. I just, I had a question. what I wanted to say. So it sounds like you’ve

William Hung:
Yes.

bob_wheeler:
learned to live within your means. Like you look at risk and you look at those things, but you’re not out there trying to buy a Ferrari and make it like you’re living

William Hung:
Yes.

bob_wheeler:
a livable life that that’s not stressing you out and you’re waking up and you’re deciding this is what I feel like doing today, but you’re not beholding all kinds of debts and all kinds of scary things that

William Hung:
Yeah,

bob_wheeler:
could take you out.

William Hung:
I learned a lot over the years. So now I don’t have any bad debt. I know no credit card debt. I only have the mortgage and then the student loan because who knows how the laws will change for that one. So I don’t have incentive to pay

bob_wheeler:
Yeah.

William Hung:
it off early. No reason, just wait. Yeah.

bob_wheeler:
Right. Yeah. No, that’s awesome. That’s awesome. Well, William, we’re at the fast five. We’re going to shift the energy just a bit. Um, I want to say a big thank you to our new sponsor, Hero Basics. Uh, the world needs more heroes. Be a hero. Make a difference. For more information, check out herobasics.com. All right. So, uh, sort of like being a champion.

William Hung:
Yeah

bob_wheeler:
Right. We, the world needs more champions. Um, all right. So here we go. I think I know the answer to this, but money

William Hung:
Um,

bob_wheeler:
or fame?

William Hung:
whoa, fame. Both.

bob_wheeler:
Both. All right, that’s fair. That’s fair. What was one of your first extravagant purchases you made after your rise to success?

William Hung:
bought a new car.

bob_wheeler:
Okay,

William Hung:
Yes.

bob_wheeler:
and were you happy with that car?

William Hung:
E o…

bob_wheeler:
Metal, it

William Hung:
It was a Toyota Prius, so

bob_wheeler:
ticked

William Hung:
it

bob_wheeler:
all

William Hung:
was

bob_wheeler:
the

William Hung:
not

bob_wheeler:
boxes.

William Hung:
that fancy. I have no problem with that one.

bob_wheeler:
Yeah, no, Toyota’s good. Um, would you rather go back in time to fix your biggest money mistake or look to the future and find

William Hung:
look

bob_wheeler:
out

William Hung:
to

bob_wheeler:
where

William Hung:
the

bob_wheeler:
you

William Hung:
future

bob_wheeler:
end up?

William Hung:
because sometimes in life without making those big mistakes before, I wouldn’t know how to manage better now.

bob_wheeler:
Yeah, absolutely. What was your last argument about money?

William Hung:
Last week because my fiance and I were talking about my future and then what I’m doing. My plan is riskier than the normal person. So yeah, it’s okay. She understands. She wants to support me as long as I not go crazy.

bob_wheeler:
Yeah, there you go. That’s good. What’s your financial weakness?

William Hung:
chasing losses. I hate losing because I’m a competitive guy. So I have a tendency to like like oh no let’s get it back today let’s get it back next week. No no no that’s not a good way to to approach finance or anything in life.

bob_wheeler:
That’s great. You know, I have not heard somebody say that before and I love that. Chasing losses.

William Hung:
Yeah.

bob_wheeler:
Because that’s what a lot of us do. But you have a name for it, so I love that. So now we’re at the M&M spot, the sweet spot, money and motivation. Do you have a practical financial tip or a piece of wealth wisdom you can share

William Hung:
Well,

bob_wheeler:
with our listeners?

William Hung:
educate yourself as much as possible. You know, yes, you want to just like, like to have some safe investments in the index funds or whatever, treasury bonds, whatever. But educate yourself more, you know? Think about like, like how to evaluate an individual company or how do you trade options and use it in a responsible way to protect yourself against the downside. don’t have to be fancy but

bob_wheeler:
Yeah.

William Hung:
the more you know the better of you be.

bob_wheeler:
Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, William, you know, what I love about this conversation, and I love the title of your book because I think it says it all champion by choice. You made a choice to step up. And I love that you’re out there trying to inspire and encourage other people to take that risk, to not worry about what other people say, to just show up and live your life, not trying to live everybody else’s life, live your best life. And the fact that you have learned to live and find joy, because there are so many people making lots of money and they’re completely of, yeah, want to have a little bit of fame, want

William Hung:
Ha

bob_wheeler:
to

William Hung:
ha ha

bob_wheeler:
have

William Hung:
ha

bob_wheeler:
a little bit of money and celebrity and all that good stuff. And

William Hung:
Bye.

bob_wheeler:
with it, you know, but within your means, like not going so crazy that you take yourself out. And the fact that you were able to gamble, start to spiral, stop and pivot

William Hung:
Right.

bob_wheeler:
before the bottom fell out, it like just speaks to the awareness and the intentionality of, I’m going to show up the way that I show up. People don’t have to like it,

William Hung:
Thank you,

bob_wheeler:
up

William Hung:
yes.

bob_wheeler:
and I’m gonna be William. Yeah, that’s awesome. Where can people find out more about you online, social media? Where can people find your book?

William Hung:
Okay,

bob_wheeler:
And you

William Hung:
sure.

bob_wheeler:
got to show me a copy

William Hung:
The best

bob_wheeler:
of your book.

William Hung:
way for you to get in touch with me is Instagram, William Hung official. I’m also active on Facebook and LinkedIn. And then the book, you can get the right now, the easiest way for you to get it on Amazon. But if you want to wait a few days as of this recording, I will also set up my shop on SC and then you can go get an autograph copy.

bob_wheeler:
Oh, that’s perfect. Now hold the book up

William Hung:
Oh

bob_wheeler:
one more

William Hung:
yeah,

bob_wheeler:
time and

William Hung:
of

bob_wheeler:
cover

William Hung:
course.

bob_wheeler:
your face with it. So I see the whole book. There

William Hung:
Yes.

bob_wheeler:
we go. Champion by choice. I love it. I love it. We should all be champions by choice. Well, William, this has been such a pleasure. I so appreciate you taking the time and I wish you much more success and maybe another round of American Idol

William Hung:
Thank

bob_wheeler:
or

William Hung:
you,

bob_wheeler:
whatever

William Hung:
man.

bob_wheeler:
the future holds for you.

William Hung:
Alright man, bye bye.